Stratagus

Level: 84

if we have got to the point where we are actually trying to edit the exe to get what we want then we might as well just program our own engine or join a project that's already started to do that. Stratagus is one such project and they just happen to need artists to show off their engine and we just happen to have people in our community who have have been making total conversions and therefore have all the art assets necessary already.

SHPist

This interesting, ViPr. I might help after october begins (can't use my 3D software till college starts).

Looking at the screenshots, I didn't like it much to be honest. It might have hope of appealing to me if it's so modifiable that you can extensively reconfigure the GUI. Or maybe I'd change my mind if I download and play it. Dial up too slow: again it'll ahve to wait till october/late september.

One of the SSs has giant ants, reminds me of SimAnt

. I sure hate the graphics, but then again that's why they need folks like me

.

Are you on there team? And what is the game rendered with?

Level: 84

yes i believe the reason their project hasn't taken off is because of the graphics so far. the one with ants is the best looking one so far but people might not like the subject matter of insects. almost all the other projects look like the graphics were scribbled in mspaint. i'm serious, it's really ridiculous. if we can get some people from this community to do sprite graphics for them then we can really help their project to gain more interest so it can really take off.

When i first saw their project i immediately closed the webpage when i saw the graphics because i thought if their graphics are like that then they probably can be bothered to do good code either but maybe i'm wrong and their code is actually really good or at least maybe we can help make their code into something good. i mean if we have some coder in our community that is ready to reverse engineer the westwood studios exes and edit them in assembly then i'm sure he can much more easily help these people make a good RTS engine. besides that we have several other good coders in our community because all of the mod tools had to be made by us because Westwood Studios didn't give us any tools as far as i can remember.

no i'm not on their team and i doubt i will be able to help but i really think other artists and coders in this community could help and would like to as well. i just want to get the discussion going.

their engine is just all 2d graphics but to be honest i actually prefer 2d sprites instead of voxels or 3d models. i think their engine is the equivalent of Warcraft 2 right now but i don't see why it couldn't be very easily edited to support super high resolutions and numbers of colors if they don't have that already.

those artists who have made total conversions with no reference to westwood games in their art will have no legal problems moving the TCs to another engine. and those artists who have made all their vxls and sprites including animations entirely from 3d models will have no technical problems converting to another engine. all they will have to do is maybe change the lighting angle, change the camera angle, maybe change the resolution, supersampling level, number of frames captured, and convert their bitmaps to another compression scheme that maybe uses palettes or not. and their computers should do everything automatically with scripts. it will require almost no work from these artists to convert. unfortunately those artists who made graphics in 2d paint programs will probably find their work obsolete.

some code could perhaps be written to convert ini files to another format or their engine can be coded to understand existing ini codes.

in many cases the transfer to another engine should be quite easy. if this engine is not good enough we can always edit it since it's apparently open source and if we decide to move yet again to another engine then there are ways of doing our work so that it's highly portable and will not result in suffering from transferring to other engines.

P.S. actually on second thought even those artists who have made VXLs not from 3d models but created in vxl editors could have those VXLs converted to 2d sprites although the results may not be so great. i'm sure stucuk's voxel viewer could be made to do it easily. i'd like to remind people that even the official Westwood Studios engines probably convert the VXLs to sprites and use those sprites most of the time.

ISTP

For just modding, the Rock Patch is good enough, since its not the communtty doing the work, but just pd and jonwil(mainly pd). -Removed- And then there is always Open Sun if that fails. Stratagus isnt the only hope, and the two mentioned above can do voxels too, so those public voxels wont go to waste.

Stratagus look like it can become good, but i dont think it can take RA2's place. Dont get me wrong, I want Stratagus to do well, I just dont thinks its all that your saying. No offence intended on any of this.

Level: 84

i didn't know about those other projects, but i assumed if Stratagus is open source then it doesn't really matter if it's not that great right now because it can be edited. don't judge it by the graphics.

and as i said already. voxels can be converted to sprites so we don't require an engine that can render voxels. besides that the voxels will probably have to be converted to sprites by the engines anyway coz they are too slow. you rarely ever see the voxels rotate smoothly in the westwood games because they probably use sprites of them most of the time.

in any case i recommend that all artists create their assets in 3d modelling programs so that they can be ported easily to basically any engine.

Level: 69

i like this
i´ll download it and try it...
but not before october either....

Level: 79

wow, this is great, btw, what's open sun?

Level: 76

i like sprite than voxel and 3d model because sprite show detail better than Voxel and when i modeling i dont want limit by polycount.

Level: 79

Exactly, that's why I'm interested in this...

Level: 71

hmm, yes very interesting, i might help too

Level: 66

Yea, what is Open Sun, if it's that petition to make TS open source, forget it.

ISTP

Open Sun is a recration of TS.

And im nether judging it by its graphic level or saying its bad, I just dont think its all your saying, becuse its then making your own game instad of modding. Atleast the recrations will have the game ready to be modded.

Again, dont get me wrong, it has alot of possibilities, but the rock patch is being made for fun by 2(mainly one) person, its not the community. Also, the rock patch is ment to be used for MODDING, not to make a new game like your talking about.

When you use Stratagus your not modding, your making a new game.

Sorry if im being thick skulled, but I dont like how you said "if we have got to the point where we are actually trying to edit the exe to get what we want...". Its not 'we', its pd and minorly jonwil. And if we make our own exe for TCs then its not a TC, then we might as well forget the trm 'modding'. And pd is hacking to get what he wants, he likes doing what he is doing, its not for the greater cuase.

Again sorry if im being thick skulled, im rather irritable today.

SHPist

Recreate TS open src style? Ha, that's neat.

Level: 71

OpenSun forum

Level: 84

ZombyDragon i don't understand your objection. modding is always going to be limited it's always going to be frustrating. with open source there will be no limits imposed on us and we won't have the threat of a shutdown lingering over us the whole time which could ruin years of our hard work in 1 second.

modding is technically illegal according to the terms of agreement but the company doesn't say anything coz they know we don't have malicious intent; they know we are doing it to improve their game which will increase their sales. but they also know that if mods become too powerful and too popular, then while increasing sales of 1 game they will destroy sales of any other game including other games from their company. They want mods to stay limited, once it goes too far they will step in. They might stop it by hiring the modders or by threatening legal action which they have every legal right to do. we cannot stop it. the only thing that might prevent them is backlash from the public with a boycott but historically that never works; a company is a lot more united than the public and so they will get away with it and survive.

if it's money you want for your hard work then pullout and take your art with you. at least if you let the project use your art for a certain amount of time then you'll help enormously to generate interest for the project and help to recruit more people instead of what is currently happening now with people turning away after seeing the graphics. at the same time while you are part of the project you'll be generating publicity of your own work. as long as you make it clear to everyone from the beginning that this is only on a temporary basis then the fans will not resent you when you pullout or when you move it to a game where they have to pay for it.

anyway in order for games to be sellable these days they have to use all 3d graphics basically. but you still don't have to lose anything by making 2d sprites for this project from high-poly high-texture models because we have technology these days to easily convert those models to low poly models and transfer all the normals and textures etc.

in other words i'm basically saying artists have nothing to lose if they help this project. if anyone tries to steal sprites then i think the community will boycott them, i think that is what has happened in the past anyway.

i have a feeling the game company is going to shutdown the attempts to modify the exe. i'm even hearing reports that the government is calling for all game mods to be banned and the makers of Grand Theft Auto seem to be agreeing with them